Let's Talk: Part 2

First post hit cap, and we are currently sorting out a bug with increasing post cap limits on the forums, so please use this thread going forward.

Thanks! :)

Please see source post at http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748905201?page=26 for detail.

Hey all,

Popping in to say we've been reading all the feedback here, and we have really appreciated everything posted so far.

We've already made some changes based off feedback we've received in this thread and others, and we will continue to iterate and tune classes as needed. I don't have any direct updates on what changes will be coming when for Hunters, but the class is definitely on our radar.

Hi.

If it seems like there's a lot of "listening to feedback," and not much in the way of answers or concrete plans, it's because we haven't yet formulated those answers, not because there won't be any or because we don't care to.

Overall, the 7.0 patch and the Legion expansion probably saw more total change to class mechanics than any other single update in the game's history. And hunters were among the most affected. That sort of revamp represents the beginning of a cycle of feedback and iteration, not an endpoint, and we know there's a lot of work left to do here.

In the weeks immediately following launch, the team has primarily been focused on fixing bugs and on overall spec balance. Numerical tuning isn't everything, but it can be done straightforwardly, often via hotfix, to get changes into players' hands as quickly as possible. The team's goal in this phase is for players of each spec to feel like they can succeed in the Legion endgame. But, of course, numerical viability doesn't mean much if you aren't enjoying the feel or mechanics of your class.

The next phase of iteration will focus on talent rows that seem devoid of choice, often because there is one dominant "correct" option. Through a mix of numbers balance and some redesign where needed, we'll aim to improve talent diversity, opening up new playstyles and options in the process. That is our plan for all classes, but it applies especially to hunters, where talent diversity is often sorely lacking. These types of changes require more testing time and iteration than pure DPS tuning: This is why planned changes to priests' Surrender to Madness, or paladins' Crusade, were delayed until a later patch in order to allow for more thorough evaluation.

Finally, we'll move on to evaluating base class and spec toolkits. Those types of changes are the riskiest to make, especially in the middle of an expansion, because they affect the core experience of every player of a given spec. But we don't plan on waiting an entire expansion to address concerns like the ones that have been raised in this thread. All sorts of potential changes are on the table. For example, in retrospect, while a focus on traps strengthened Survival spec identity, taking so many traps away from Marks/BM entirely was harmful to hunter class identity. But changes like those can only happen in a full patch, and will benefit from a lengthy PTR cycle.

PS: Yes, I realize that hunters don't have an ability called Deterrence anymore, and I should have said Turtle instead. Force of habit - I also still called Hand of Protection "BoP" for years (though now it actually is BoP again...). Sorry.

10/18/2016 12:32 AMPosted by Stabriel

10/18/2016 12:16 AMPosted by Watcher

Hi.

If it seems like there's a lot of "listening to feedback," and not much in the way of answers or concrete plans, it's because we haven't yet formulated those answers, not because there won't be any or because we don't care to.

Overall, the 7.0 patch and the Legion expansion probably saw more total change to class mechanics than any other single update in the game's history. And hunters were among the most affected. That sort of revamp represents the beginning of a cycle of feedback and iteration, not an endpoint, and we know there's a lot of work left to do here.

In the weeks immediately following launch, the team has primarily been focused on fixing bugs and on overall spec balance. Numerical tuning isn't everything, but it can be done straightforwardly, often via hotfix, to get changes into players' hands as quickly as possible. The team's goal in this phase is for players of each spec to feel like they can succeed in the Legion endgame. But, of course, numerical viability doesn't mean much if you aren't enjoying the feel or mechanics of your class.

The next phase of iteration will focus on talent rows that seem devoid of choice, often because there is one dominant "correct" option. Through a mix of numbers balance and some redesign where needed, we'll aim to improve talent diversity, opening up new playstyles and options in the process. That is our plan for all classes, but it applies especially to hunters, where talent diversity is often sorely lacking. These types of changes require more testing time and iteration than pure DPS tuning: This is why planned changes to priests' Surrender to Madness, or paladins' Crusade, were delayed until a later patch in order to allow for more thorough evaluation.

Finally, we'll move on to evaluating base class and spec toolkits. Those types of changes are the riskiest to make, especially in the middle of an expansion, because they affect the core experience of every player of a given spec. But we don't plan on waiting an entire expansion to address concerns like the ones that have been raised in this thread. All sorts of potential changes are on the table. For example, in retrospect, while a focus on traps strengthened Survival spec identity, taking so many traps away from Marks/BM entirely was harmful to hunter class identity. But changes like those can only happen in a full patch, and will benefit from a lengthy PTR cycle.

PS: Yes, I realize that hunters don't have an ability called Deterrence anymore, and I should have said Turtle instead. Force of habit - I also still called Hand of Protection "BoP" for years (though now it actually is BoP again...). Sorry.

Is there a reason why you only post in certain class forums? You seem to mainly just post here and communicate a lot with Hunters, but our Rogue forum is deserted even though Outlaw is among the lowest (in many cases, very bottom) DPS. Yo'd think you would be more concerned with assisting the classes who need it, like Rogues and DK's.

Reiterating his first point here -

If it seems like there's a lot of "listening to feedback," and not much in the way of answers or concrete plans, it's because we haven't yet formulated those answers, not because there won't be any or because we don't care to.

As I mentioned to you yesterday, we are aware of the feedback from Outlaw Rogues in general. I myself am working to get some insight to share on the state of the spec today. I really do appreciate your patience while I try to gather some information from the developers on this.