Talent tree system or paint by numbers?

01/25/2013 08:51 AMPosted by Squekor

They gave us "variety" by making the choices irrelevant to the game. You have freedom to choose, because your choice is meaningless. How is this an improvement?

I'm not sure you've actually looked at the new talents.

The are doing the same thing with glyphs. The top tier was removed completely. Many of the best or "mathematically superior choices" have been removed and added to your rotation as baseline skills. Minor glyphs are now almost nothing but cosmetic changes.

You're upset that you got some glyphs as baseline skills? o.O

01/25/2013 10:30 AMPosted by Staan

You are doing shadow priest wrong then (yes I can see your main). I change talents and sometimes glyphs for literally every fight in this tier. The new talent tree is simple, but it still allows for min/maxing. The only thing I wish is that there weren't certain tiers that have little or nothing to do with the ENTIRE game (such as the tier 1 for priest, great for pvp but little impact on raiding).

01/25/2013 10:30 AMPosted by Staan

wish is that there weren't certain tiers that have little or nothing to do with the ENTIRE game (such as the tier 1 for priest, great for pvp but little impact on raiding).

01/25/2013 10:30 AMPosted by Staan

little or nothing to do with the ENTIRE game (such as the tier 1 for priest, great for pvp but little impact

ENTIRE game ... great for pvp

:)

01/25/2013 10:26 AMPosted by Erras

I'm not sure you've actually looked at the new talents.

With all due respect... have you? As previously stated, only two of my six choices have any meaningful effect at all on my character. And those two choices don't really alter my experience much. Its mostly the choice between a cooldown and a passive ability to improve my DPS. It certainly isn't much of a fun or exciting choice now, is it? Well, I guess that's subjective, but its certainly not fun or exciting for me.

And it is even worse on leveling characters. I honestly am not sure I even have my talents set on some of my lower levels. They are so trivial and unimportant, I completely forget about them. Gone are the days that reaching a new level meant something. :(

Ah, so if it doesn't flat increase your DPS it's worthless? I think you may want to talk to some other druids on what is useful or not in various situations. Not sure I can argue against that kind of mentality except to say what you're looking for are item stats. If all you want is flat DPS increases, keep gearing up! The rest of us will enjoy employing various talents, and respeccing, to great effect.

:)

lol I want a blue button

I think he meant that he wishes all skill tiers were relevant to both PVE and PVP and not only PVP or PVE

Not all trees are going to be amazing for every situation. We're happy to hear ideas on how we can change a given tree to keep it unique and make it useful in raiding, questing, and pvp. :)

01/25/2013 10:39 AMPosted by Staan

But did you get excited about that extra 2 percent damage to moonfire? Maybe for a few seconds, but it wasn't that talent point that enabled you to keep going and further your toon, it was the level itself. Sure, every 10-15 levels you got a talent that was really a game changer, but what does that sound like?

To be fair the old trees were successful in making themselves seem meaningful and fun, but yes most of the time they were either meaningless or required. Speccing down a tree by following a guide to maximize DPS wasn't a choice, and if you didn't follow a guide you were spending your talents wrong. Period. With the new trees you have six trees, and on each tree all three options are a variations on a theme, and the choice generally comes down to personal preference or style. That's at least an option that means something to you, to your character, and your identity in the game.

01/25/2013 10:42 AMPosted by Bigscreen

the only time ive used the T1 priest talent is on the last boss in msv. everything else in raiding is immune to thoes talents. so....

What about while you were leveling to 90? Or doing dailies? Or PvPing? Those talents are actually amazing in different ways, and for many different situations.

No, what I would like is something that actually changes how I play my character, particularly making it different than how another balance druid might play his character. Perhaps a tier might consist of a movement speed increase, a small reduction in damage, or a small heal for every step I take. Compare that to my first tier: a movement speed increase or two teleport-like abilities on cooldowns.

Just a simple and quick example I came up with in a very short time frame.

We generally found that we had to theme tiers to a particular mechanic. For example, a small heal in a tier with movement abilities would feel mandatory for a Guardian druid who likely cares a lot more about living than moving. There are exceptions. The mage tier 2 has a movement ability, and absorb and a heal.

No, what I would like is something that actually changes how I play my character, particularly making it different than how another balance druid might play his character. Perhaps a tier might consist of a movement speed increase, a small reduction in damage, or a small heal for every step I take. Compare that to my first tier: a movement speed increase or two teleport-like abilities on cooldowns.

Just a simple and quick example I came up with in a very short time frame.

We generally found that we had to theme tiers to a particular mechanic. For example, a small heal in a tier with movement abilities would feel mandatory for a Guardian druid who likely cares a lot more about living than moving. There are exceptions. The mage tier 2 has a movement ability, and absorb and a heal.

I'm going to have to leave this conversation as I have some work stuff to attend to, but I will say things like this are always subjective and some people are looking for dramatic differences in rotations or whatever when they choose a talent. Overall though we are seeing far more diversity in the new talent trees than we ever did with the old.

Balance is one of those specs with less diversity than others, which is something we're trying to address in 5.2. But when you look at say tier 2, about half of Balance druids have Nature's Swiftness and about half have Renewal. Regardless if every tier has the three most amazing options for your personal favorite way to play the game or not, there's no refuting that the new talent system is providing meaningful options, it is encouraging diversity in builds, and we'll be continuing to support it through balance tweaks and tuning adjustments.