Could we please get a clarification on the new loot system as currently, every fansite going has it worded differently, leading to very conflicting ideas of how its going to work. No site has it written down in such obvious language as to actually explain it, its very confusing.
How I understand it:
Boss dies - we all roll (do we have to actually roll or is it automatic now?)
Game selects the top 'n' rolls and declares them winners.
The game then checks that bosses entire loot table, picks out all the items they could use and then randomly gives one of them to each of the winners. (is it random, or is it smart? will it give duplicate items, will it favour main spec or is it just random?)
If there's no useable loot on that boss, the winners instead get gold
This is the best I can comprehend it. Some people are suggesting that everyone rolls and the system will decide if they win or lose, like say "everyone who rolls greater than 80 wins" or some such, leading to a possibility that everyone wins something, or nobody wins anything and every other possibility in between. I don't think this is correct though.
Now people are also saying this wont fix the problem of ninjaing. when in fact it does. The boss wont "drop loot" anymore, you wont see items upfront so nobody will ninja "your sword" because its not decided what items people get untill after they have already been declared winners.
We're working on getting a new Coffee with the Devs (aka Dev Watercooler) out, which will explain the new system in a very clear and precise way.
I don't want to post everything that'll be explained in that article, however essentially for Raid Finder it's currently intended to be like this: the boss will die, the game decides who wins loot. There'll be no rolling or passing.
While we've got you here, will the 2 hour window to trade items with other players still exist? Assuming someone wins something they've already won(the week before or so) and their friend could use said item.
For items received this new way, via the Raid Finder, I believe the answer is no.
I don't want to post everything that'll be explained in that article, however essentially for Raid Finder it's currently intended to be like this:
the boss will die, the game decides who wins loot. There'll be no rolling or passing.
Will this bee the same for LFG/PuGs?
The current intention is just Raid Finder and world boss encounters to start with. As with pretty much everything in a beta (and even outside one) this may change over time.
Another thing to keep in mind is that just because — for example — another holy priest in your group gets loot from the boss that's suitable for a holy priest, doesn't exclude you from getting the same item also, if you are a holy priest too.
You could fill the raid with priests and you'll all have your own personal chance to win a loot item suitable for you. A chance which doesn't decrease just because you're grouped with others that could receive the same loot, and a chance that also doesn't decrease if say 5 other people actually do receive the same loot item as well.
Not being able to trade loot would be just ... I don't have an appropriate word for that. Not everyone has the same items on her/his wish list as the game thinks she/he is supposed to. It would simply be very, very wrong.
If you are not happy with the spec-appropriate items that the Raid Finder/World Boss loot system gives you, then you can still go to normal or heroic raids or dungeons to get alternative gear through the usual system.
Not allowing trading is there for a very good reason and is not just an arbitrary change.
Does that possibly mean you don't have to be grouped to kill a world boss, but anyone participating in the fight will be eligible for loot (similar to some current quest mob mechanics)?
I suspect the usual rules for tagging/"tapping" mobs would still be in place.
Will the loot you can receive be based on your Class, current spec/what you signed up as or the 2 specs you have? If it's just based on your class, I know with my luck I'll end up with all Holy gear even though I'm Prot/Ret.
It would seem to be currently class + current spec.
Also please, please don't bring this system to LFD, it's bad enough that we have to be babied so much because some people whine when they don't get the loot they thing they deserve.
The idea of adding it at first just for Raid Finder and World Bosses leads me to believe we are being careful with the introduction of this new loot system, and that we will slowly and methodically evaluate its merits and appropriateness — together with player feedback — before considering introducing it for other content.
tbh sounds like an awesome system to me, I've run LFR a bunch of times and it's annoying to see people just clicking need whenever they can, claiming 'oh it's for my offspec' or some other obvious lie ;)
I also REALLY like the idea that if someone else in your raid gets a peice, it doesn't mean you can't get it as well :D
I'm also pretty excited by it, and just really glad that we're looking at making such substantial changes to the loot system.
the question is... Will the game automatically give you your biggest upgrade, or will it just choose something randomly?
Say the boss has two items, ilvl 500 Super sword of WTFPWN, and ilvl500 Trinket of not dieing EVER..
Then I have the ilvl 450 not super, but still pretty good sword of WTFPWN, and the ilvl 1 trinket of wtf why do you have this equiped, would the game give me the trinket over the sword, because it's a MUCH bigger upgrade, or would it be luck?
The effectiveness of the game's ability to select appropriate loot items, and whether it gives you the highest upgrade first or not, is yet to be revealed.
Would it be possible to make players receive loot not only for the talent spec they are currently having in the raid, but also for their second talent specialization IF they have an appropriate role selected when signing up for the LFR tool?
Would it be possible? I imagine, as with almost everything, it would be. Is it intended to work this way? Currently I believe it is not.
I'm not entirely certain I understand you there. If a boss drops one item that's suitable for a holy priest, there is a possibility that several holy priests in the raid group will get this item? So the item kind of duplicates itself and is distributed between all the holy priests who are considered winners?
I also have the impression that there is no way of knowing what the boss drops before the loot is distributed. Is this correct? If so, it would feel like the looting process is in a way enclosed and hidden away from us, in such a way that we don't know what's going on, which in turn makes it somewhat chaotic. You know, when loot suddenly pops up in our bags, most of us will most likely think 'what on earth just happened?'.
Hrm. Bosses will still have loot tables, which just like now, we (players) know about.
I have never seen a sinlge blue being more active in a single thread than this. Your answers and participation are truly appreciated, Wryxian. :3
Well I've hardly posted in ages, but there's something about World of Warcraft betas that just wake something in me and I go all forum crazy. I suspect this is just the beginning. :)
To be honest the new loot rule isn't sounding too good, what if someone was to win what they had previously won? they would have to sell it/DE it.
I'm not sure this would happen in the new system. But it does happen in the current system. It's better than not receiving anything at all, though, as you can still gain something from receiving it by just selling or disenchanting it.
So just like now, in the new system if you don't get what you want, you try try again. :)
Yes, but I was referring to this. Your own personal chance to win loot. I worded my reply wrong sorry, I meant to say that it feels as though its heading in that direction, loot for everyone.
Not entirely sure where you're going with this. Not everyone will get loot from a boss kill, it will still remain like today where only some of the kill participants get loot.
Wryxian - dont you feel that this ultimately leads to being able to gear up faster?
Because it will mean that if you win loot, it will either be good for you or something you already have? I might be a little groggy having just woken up, but don't you think that in theory, it should still be like that now?
The only reason you should win loot that isn't good for your character at the moment is if you greeded it and were lucky nobody needed it (nobody would press need if they didn't need it, right? *cough*), or you needed it when you don't actually need it (and who would do that? *gasp in mock surprise*). Otherwise you either win something good for you, or you don't.
would it not have been easier for the programmers to implement IF statements for every spec and class to have it look at what is optimal? say - paladin DPS dont use 2h weapons, dont let them need on 1h, etc.
Maybe that's one approach. Another might be to simply list which items on that boss loot table would be good for which class/spec.
Or will you just end up winning an item, just to sell/de it while the 6th on the roll gets really sad, cause the boss could have dropped the "Sword of IPWNULOL" for him, that he is waiting for since months?
If someone is waiting for some loot for months, (which will still be possible in this new system) then their only focus of anger should be on the laws of probability.
It looks promising...but I'm beginning to think it might be over complicated in some way. There appear to be a lot of questions and uncertainty. Granted, that'll probably all clear up when people see the system in action.....
This is the thing, we need to see it in action on a grand scale (and with such a large amount of beta testers incoming, we're going to see that!) and players also need to see it in action too. The system is actually very simple when you look at it, and this is much better explained in the upcoming article from Ghostcrawler. All the explanations from myself and other blue posters are really just to highlight the repercussions of a new system that is at the heart really quite simple.
So yes, we need to see it in action, you do too, and then we need to look at how we can possibly adjust it and make it work best for everyone. The cool thing (at least in my mind) is that we're prepared to look at such a fundamental thing like looting and make such a substantial change. We've not been blind to the feedback we've received about looting and we want to make it right.
And yes, I'm repeating myself but off-specs are not out of our consideration. We're thinking on that one. :)
Is there really no chance a player can reject the loot?
In the current incarnation, no. I can see you've got altruistic reasons why you'd want to reject it, which is admirable. :)
With the new system, having others that might compete for "your" loot item in that boss kill isn't much a problem, because they will have just as much chance of receiving the item you want as you do. So again, not receiving an item you want is due to the the laws of probability. *shakes fist at probability*
But if the system was tweaked so you could also trade them the item you won and they want but you already have, then in a way that actually encourages you to have similar class/spec players in your raid as it means this increases the chances of getting something you (or they) will need.
So I guess there's a fine line that needs to be achieved here. We don't want to discourage players from forming groups with other players that have the same class/spec (which is kinda like it is now) but at the same time we have to be careful not to encourage the opposite, as we want groups to be as diverse (or not) as players choose.
