Quote by Lore:
"this thread makes the argument that, due to pruning, players don't have enough options to respond to something another player is doing, which leads to predictable gameplay. It also makes the argument that classes have too many defensive cooldowns, too much mobility, too many CC breaks, and too many interrupts. Don't those two arguments contradict each other? If not, why don't they? Honest question; if I'm just missing something here, I want to know about it.
I also think it's dangerous to make the argument that niche options add a skill element. There was an example given of a Priest using Mind Soothe to eat Spell Reflect. That's definitely a good trick that a skilled player would use, but I would stop to question what exactly it is about that trick that makes it stand out.
While a multi-rank 1 Gladiator might like having a few niche abilities they only use in specific circumstances, an entry-level PvP'er could be turned off by having to learn so much about other classes they've never played."
Quote by Holinka:
"We've tried very hard to make PvP a bigger part of the game, and more accessible (dumbed down) to more people (PVE Players), because in the end, we all (Holinka) want more people to kill."
Quote by Celestalon:
"I want a more complex rotation, not this 2 button crap." = Not very useful, since it's basis is obviously false. What's true?"
My Response:
That mentality is the exact reason why the game is in it's current state.
You are SO worried about non-existant subscribers being turned off and leaving, that you have decided to tailor the game for this non-existant player base, at the expense of your subscribers.
Let me explain something since it is clear developers are 99% strictly PVE players. It's not just R1 players using those "niche" abilities, the majority of PVP players either use them or aspire to do so as they approach their skill cap. In fact to PVP players they are just abilities you should know better to use, we don't call them "niche" we call them non-damage abilities, which are the most important abilities in the game. Those abilities are the difference between PVE and PVP, and that is precisely why you do not understand their importance.
What value do non-damage abilities add? Those abilities give you the opportunity to express your knowledge and skill, it provides endless opportunities for counterplay, they are the very esssence of PVP. It is in those non-damage abilities that help you create the great memories in this game that keep bringing you back. When you remember how easily you got crushed when some Rogue opened on you when you were a noob, but 6 months later 2 Rogues opened on you while doing dailies and you destroyed them both with a full health bar. That is why we PVP, we don't do it because it's easy, we do it because it's hard and because the learning curve is/was extremely rewarding.
Now that may be hard to believe for a group of PVE players working on a game, whom prefer to fight some AI that acts exactly the same way on every encounter. But PVP players in general have much faster reaction times, are calm and don't freak out when an enemy lays a puddle of AOE on the ground or feel they are good players for moving out of the way, and they are most genuinely passionate about having a challenge.
If PVP players did not want a challenge, they would PVE, because that is exactly why PVE players PVE (sorry guys but that's the truth). I guarantee you that if WoW incorporated advanced AI on dungeon mobs and bosses, PVE players would protest at not being able to pull 15 brainless mobs at a time while watching Netflix.
I know alot of things don't make sense because some players say there is too much CC and other's say there is too little. Some say it's too bursty and others want their burst abilities back. But the truth is that you know exactly what the PVP community means but you do not want to accept it. (Refer to Celestalon's Quote)
For example, players give Celestalon or Holinka feedback saying "Hey you took away too many abilities and it leaves no room for counterplay".
Then you guys go, "Well that is actually a false statement. I as a PVE player do not want more abilities or a challenge, I want to pull 20 mobs while watching Game of Thrones. Therefore what the PVP community really means is that the pruning is fine but they want more burst."
So you release these patches that make no sense and serve no purpose whatsoever, other than to justify your salary and give you a false sense of accomplishment.
Stop doing that mental gymnastics where you discredit player feedback to protect your ego and supplant it with your distorted and condescending ideas.
Stop playing with the players, and work for your subscribers, not some non-existant player base. The comments made by the game developers are often shocking at how disconnected they are from reality.
"this thread makes the argument that, due to pruning, players don't have enough options to respond to something another player is doing, which leads to predictable gameplay. It also makes the argument that classes have too many defensive cooldowns, too much mobility, too many CC breaks, and too many interrupts. Don't those two arguments contradict each other? If not, why don't they? Honest question; if I'm just missing something here, I want to know about it.
I also think it's dangerous to make the argument that niche options add a skill element. There was an example given of a Priest using Mind Soothe to eat Spell Reflect. That's definitely a good trick that a skilled player would use, but I would stop to question what exactly it is about that trick that makes it stand out.
While a multi-rank 1 Gladiator might like having a few niche abilities they only use in specific circumstances, an entry-level PvP'er could be turned off by having to learn so much about other classes they've never played."
Quote by Holinka:
"We've tried very hard to make PvP a bigger part of the game, and more accessible (dumbed down) to more people (PVE Players), because in the end, we all (Holinka) want more people to kill."
Quote by Celestalon:
"I want a more complex rotation, not this 2 button crap." = Not very useful, since it's basis is obviously false. What's true?"
My Response:
That mentality is the exact reason why the game is in it's current state.
You are SO worried about non-existant subscribers being turned off and leaving, that you have decided to tailor the game for this non-existant player base, at the expense of your subscribers.
Let me explain something since it is clear developers are 99% strictly PVE players. It's not just R1 players using those "niche" abilities, the majority of PVP players either use them or aspire to do so as they approach their skill cap. In fact to PVP players they are just abilities you should know better to use, we don't call them "niche" we call them non-damage abilities, which are the most important abilities in the game. Those abilities are the difference between PVE and PVP, and that is precisely why you do not understand their importance.
What value do non-damage abilities add? Those abilities give you the opportunity to express your knowledge and skill, it provides endless opportunities for counterplay, they are the very esssence of PVP. It is in those non-damage abilities that help you create the great memories in this game that keep bringing you back. When you remember how easily you got crushed when some Rogue opened on you when you were a noob, but 6 months later 2 Rogues opened on you while doing dailies and you destroyed them both with a full health bar. That is why we PVP, we don't do it because it's easy, we do it because it's hard and because the learning curve is/was extremely rewarding.
Now that may be hard to believe for a group of PVE players working on a game, whom prefer to fight some AI that acts exactly the same way on every encounter. But PVP players in general have much faster reaction times, are calm and don't freak out when an enemy lays a puddle of AOE on the ground or feel they are good players for moving out of the way, and they are most genuinely passionate about having a challenge.
If PVP players did not want a challenge, they would PVE, because that is exactly why PVE players PVE (sorry guys but that's the truth). I guarantee you that if WoW incorporated advanced AI on dungeon mobs and bosses, PVE players would protest at not being able to pull 15 brainless mobs at a time while watching Netflix.
I know alot of things don't make sense because some players say there is too much CC and other's say there is too little. Some say it's too bursty and others want their burst abilities back. But the truth is that you know exactly what the PVP community means but you do not want to accept it. (Refer to Celestalon's Quote)
For example, players give Celestalon or Holinka feedback saying "Hey you took away too many abilities and it leaves no room for counterplay".
Then you guys go, "Well that is actually a false statement. I as a PVE player do not want more abilities or a challenge, I want to pull 20 mobs while watching Game of Thrones. Therefore what the PVP community really means is that the pruning is fine but they want more burst."
So you release these patches that make no sense and serve no purpose whatsoever, other than to justify your salary and give you a false sense of accomplishment.
Stop doing that mental gymnastics where you discredit player feedback to protect your ego and supplant it with your distorted and condescending ideas.
Stop playing with the players, and work for your subscribers, not some non-existant player base. The comments made by the game developers are often shocking at how disconnected they are from reality.
