Proof that tanks/healers are special

02/17/2011 12:50 PMPosted by Duckofdeath

Sorry, but the only reason there are rules is not because tanks and healers are special. It's because the "special" ones didn't actually tank or heal.

Well technically speaking the rules are there because some tanks were abusing the fact that we are in fact rare and that is what makes us special. The devs have finally acknowledged that and if you read the rest of the post they continuously make incentives for us not to tank for pugs so Im simply asking if its about time to implement incentives for us to tank for pugs before the queues get even more rediculously long.

Where in last night's announced Dungeon Finder changes do we provide tanks with incentives when they do not queue solo?

We're making changes to discourage behavior we don't think is good for the general populace using the Dungeon Finder, but that's incredibly different from providing you with direct incentives in these changes for running with pre-made groups.

02/17/2011 12:59 PMPosted by Duckofdeath

1. There is an incentive to queue with my guildies for the guild run benefit so that means I am going to queue with at least 3 people.

This is an incentive. True. You gain reputation with your guild faster when running with other guild mates. The benefits of this are variable though depending on how committed to a guild you are. Not everyone ululates uncontrollably about the opportunity to get rep at a slightly faster rate. Most players running five-player dungeons are in it mostly for the Justice Points, the gear, and the gold.

This is also not a part of the changes announced last night, to which you were specifically referring in the previous post I quoted.

02/17/2011 12:59 PMPosted by Duckofdeath

2. There is an incentive not to take pugs for that last spot or two because of the stiff penalties I have to face if they are bads.

You're exaggerating the penalty quite a bit. The penalty for issuing Vote Kicks too often is hidden from you and is issued in almost all cases when players are way too trigger happy with this option.

Yes, you could be in a dungeon with three other friends and pick up a bad player. You could get two bad players in a row. Maybe more. The penalty still shouldn't really apply to you unless you're kicking player after player on a whim because you and your friends get absolute say over whether that fifth player gets to stay in your group or not.

This change should have little affect on the majority of players running dungeons with three other friends, so long as they're being reasonable about when to use the Vote Kick feature.

02/17/2011 1:05 PMPosted by Iambcomdeath

I think what the OP is trying to say is this change is going to directly or indirectly increase queue times because tanks/healers have less reason to pug now due to either having to put up with a bad player (whether that be a dps, tank, or healer) or votekick them and incur a penalty which might prevent them from kicking again if the replacement pug is horrible too.

This is still assuming a lot about how severe or quickly the Vote Kick penalty can be incurred, but it's at least a much more clear way of stating the concern.

I don't like the way people are using the word "incentive" in this thread. It's an incorrect spin on the aim of the changes. Just because we're trying to curb one type of behavior, doesn't mean we're providing direct benefits for another type of behavior.

As the original poster mentioned in the last post I quoted, the only direct incentive a tank gets for queuing with friends is increased guild reputation gains -- and those friends must be guild mates.