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Ornyx

Having a healthy forum in 2017” wysłany:
02/14/2017 05:35 PMPosted by Wanobi
02/14/2017 05:30 PMPosted by Annastasi
why though? people don't always have paragraphs of deep thought to contribute to an issue. But they read it, they have a reaction to it.

how is "holy cow this is the most stupid post I've read all year" more productive than a -1?

how is "great idea, chap!!" more productive than a +1?it's not.


especially considering the "I agree" and "I disagree" posts might be considered "non constructive" posts under CoC. Makes far more sense to have a simple button to push...let's say a thumbs up if you agree...and a thumbs down if you disagree. It keeps the threads free of those little cluttering posts and frees up more space for those who want to discuss the issues at length.
In its base form in a perfect world, yes.

When "I disagree" becomes "you're stupid" and "I'm a troll", the entire system breaks down. It doesn't happen everywhere, but it happens enough, in important places, that we are aware that it's an issue.
[2. Trade]” wysłany:
Use the lounge threads for your off-topic rambles to the universe.
Having a healthy forum in 2017” wysłany:
02/14/2017 05:29 PMPosted by Wanobi
02/14/2017 05:27 PMPosted by Ornyx
You sound fun. We should grab tea sometime.


I used to work with people who were victims of sexual assault.

There's nothing "fun" about the experience, or those who make light of it.
The lounge threads are moderated, just like all others. Maybe not in the moments you see them, but you have my word that I see numerous deleted posts throughout all of them. As we've always said, if you see a post that you think needs moderation: report it. Those are looked at very, very often.
Having a healthy forum in 2017” wysłany:
<span class="truncated">...</span>They don't serve a purpose when they're abused.

Like when Warlock players (luv u) were going through Dev Q&A threads and downvoting everything that wasn't a question about Warlocks. That makes the system serve no purpose.


Sure, but that's a problem separate from the ability to downvote. Those same warlocks could have been going through and upvote trolling replies about warlocks. The same result - bad/trollish data making warlock threads looking "better" than non warlock threads.

I have to solidly agree with the belief that upvotes without downvotes isn't healthy, and is basically meaningless.
I'm not necessarily advocating for that solution, it was just an idea that's popped around. This community wasn't ever meant to be self-moderating like subreddits are, so that's why the 'purpose' is a bit unclear.

02/14/2017 05:28 PMPosted by Virus
02/14/2017 05:17 PMPosted by Ornyx
Like when Warlock players (luv u) were going through Dev Q&A threads and downvoting everything that wasn't a question about Warlocks. That makes the system serve no purpose.


Going through and up-voting other lock questions that i wanted answered sure, down-voting a "Locks are fine QQ moar" type post sure i can see that but locks en masse down-voting anything that isn't warlock related i find that very hard to believe.
It happened, unfortunately. Not the first time, but it only takes a few.

Edit: And yeah, I think we are in agreement. The 'right' thing to do in situations where Devs are reaching out for Q&A questions is to upvote questions you want answered. No question really deserves a downvote unless its off-topic.
Having a healthy forum in 2017” wysłany:
02/14/2017 05:22 PMPosted by Wanobi
One thing I can tell you right off the bat that would make the forums a better place: not ignoring what goes on in the lounge threads.
You sound fun. We should grab tea sometime.

I'll give you some buttons for this post to see how it does:

[+ Like] [- Dislike]
Any Southern California players?” wysłany:
02/14/2017 04:53 PMPosted by Piaf
Long Beach. Fight me.
/duel
Having a healthy forum in 2017” wysłany:
02/14/2017 05:03 PMPosted by Annastasi
Anyways, I'm interested in you guys' thoughts on this since you use this forum too and all.


So....downvotes don't serve a purpose, but upvotes do

you don't get to have it both ways. How can you say upvotes give you a true idea of how the community feels about something, in the absence of downvotes?

492 upvotes.. must be an idea the community can get behind.

except, 492 upvotes, 952 downvotes...adding the downvotes to the mix tells a different story.
They don't serve a purpose when they're abused.

Like when Warlock players (luv u) were going through Dev Q&A threads and downvoting everything that wasn't a question about Warlocks. That makes the system serve no purpose.
Earn a New Mount—For Azeroth!” wysłany:
02/14/2017 02:03 PMPosted by Successful
Wish it was just 15 games/wins and not requiring a friend. I have no friends.

Anyway, more cross game promos is nice. So much better than cash shop mounts.
I've seen a lot of folks on the Heroes of the Storm forum and blog post who are willing to team up with WoW players. Just reach out to 'em!

Also, there's a thread on our forums too.
Having a healthy forum in 2017” wysłany:
02/14/2017 02:37 PMPosted by Alisiaa
Upvotes, however, do serve a purpose in generalizing community perception to certain topics, and it helps us to track what is 'generally' agreed upon.


I have to disagree with this to an extent,

Having upvotes without downvotes denotes a "Popular" discussion, not that someone is necessarily correct in what they're

If you just suppress the opposing side, then you make something look better than it is.

Yeah, it can be inaccurate at times, but you still need a way to show people "This guy is agreed on, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's right."

Other than reading it, just cause some people don't...well...read.

My point being Upvotes/Downvotes tend to sway how the argument will be met, and some people may not be as willing to disagree with what appears to be a popular opinion, even if it should be.
Yes, that's true. If you have one without the other, upvotes would only denote popularity. I was more leaning to its current form.
Do u get insulted for playin ur spec?” wysłany:
02/14/2017 02:35 PMPosted by Dehaka
02/14/2017 02:16 PMPosted by Ornyx
I never said that. In fact I've mentioned 0 specs specifically here. Let's get our 'facts' straight here.

I said there are a couple of outlying specs that may be under-performing, and that we've got our eyes on them. Please don't twist my words to fit what you want to hear.


Merely repeating what has been said. That's all. Don't be misleading people thinking that you can change the communities perspective when it is a fact that ferals and UH DKs are bad or offer advice like "stay away from those people" or "go casual" because that severely limits players options just because their spec is bad.

If a spec is underperforming, they shouldn't have to feel like they're getting kicked out of a group or won't be able to do certain content just because it's a FACT that the spec cannot perform on a general level. That's not the players fault. That's fault due to inadequate balancing and foresight on the classes' capabilities and ignorance of FREQUENT FEEDBACK.

Players shouldn't feel like their only options are to "stay away from players" or "go casual". They should have the freedom to do whatever content they want with whatever spec they want in reason. If the community is constantly denying Ferals and UH DKs, that's not the players fault, that's on YOU.
The problem here is your phrase "perform on a general level", and it all falls apart when considering that. As you can see by the various opinions in this thread, that is disagreed upon - some think "generally" all specs are able to perform, while others think that "generally" two or three specs will never be able to hold water.

Thanks for your feedback otherwise.
TEAM FIRE KITTIES!!!” wysłany:
Lore?
Having a healthy forum in 2017” wysłany:
02/14/2017 01:22 PMPosted by Aarkriidkein
!@#$ off. Just no, alright? No.

Why tho? Because you got butthurt someone downvoted you? People are free to downvote as they please, no matter what. They are allowed to disagree.

This is called free speech and what you are asking is the silencing of free speech.

I mean, some people just can't be bothered writing so they downvote to show their opinion. I'd be someone like that if I wasn't such an English hor.
Reading this while thinking...

"...free speech means the government can't arrest you for what you say. It doesn't mean that anyone else has to listen to your bulls**t, or host you while you share it. The 1st Amendment doesn't shield you from criticism or consequences." -xkcd

---

Anyways, agreeing with OP in a vein, and others here. The downvote system doesn't really serve a purpose in the current environment (and it is abused more than used properly). We've been talking about what we think would be better - getting rid of downvotes, getting rid of votes entirely, etc. - but we don't have any definite consensus among our team yet.

Upvotes, however, do serve a purpose in generalizing community perception to certain topics, and it helps us to track what is 'generally' agreed upon.

Anyways, I'm interested in you guys' thoughts on this since you use this forum too and all.

02/14/2017 02:11 PMPosted by Brissandy
Usually the more rational, thought out, and well spoken a post is on this forum, the more downvotes it has.
Funny because it's true. :P
Do u get insulted for playin ur spec?” wysłany:
To address what I think is your point: believe it or not, balance is generally in a good place right now, as I said earlier in this thread. There will always be a class in the bottom when it comes to numbers, but, again, this is a community perception issue more than anything - especially when looking at the vast majority of specs being super close to each other on (to take it into account) log rankings at various percentiles. And just to state it again: there are a couple of outlying specs that vary fight-to-fight that we are watching and looking into.

You didn't really make a good comment here that lends itself to any kind of discussion. If you'd like to contribute to a constructive conversation, please do it.


Telling people to go casual or to just ignore what other people think when it is a fact that ferals and uh dks are bad are also very misleading and not constructive comments to help bring awareness to specs that need help. Don't say "You have you say in these things as much as they do. Show them what you're worth and make them talk." then proceed with "there's zero reason to bring a feral druid or an unholy dk right now". Those are two conflicting comments.

How is someone suppose to show their worth when it is a fact that there is zero reason to bring a feral druid or UH DK? Please be consistent and not bring further confusion.

And don't delete the comments when what I am saying is truth :). Thanks.
I never said that. In fact I've mentioned 0 specs specifically here. Let's get our 'facts' straight here.

I said there are a couple of outlying specs that may be under-performing, and that we've got our eyes on them. Please don't twist my words to fit what you want to hear.
Do u get insulted for playin ur spec?” wysłany:
02/14/2017 01:36 PMPosted by Gigabear
02/14/2017 01:18 PMPosted by Ornyx
To address what I think is your point: believe it or not, balance is generally in a good place right now, as I said earlier in this thread. There will always be a class in the bottom when it comes to numbers, but, again, this is a community perception issue more than anything - especially when looking at the vast majority of specs being super close to each other on (to take it into account) log rankings at various percentiles.


I think we have a different idea of what constitutes "a good place" and "super close." The spread is a minimum of ten percent. It's not terrible, but still enough for someone to look at two applicants for a group and legitimately say that anyone in the top tier of that spread is getting an invite long before anyone whose spec is at the bottom.

You call this a community construct, but really players are just taking what is given to them and making choices for how best to succeed at content. This isn't behavior to be corrected, it's behavior to be made as unnecessary as possible through a continuing process of tightening the dps spread between specs.
I will say, to the last point, DPS has been tightening over the course of the expansion so far.
GD Lounge 6” wysłany:
o/
Investing in WoW” wysłany:
It's just one vacation after another for employees of Crimson Corp.

Must be a happy place.
Tea” wysłany:
02/14/2017 01:29 PMPosted by Zish
02/14/2017 01:25 PMPosted by Ornyx
Steeped in the tears of forum trolls, probably.


So, how do your tears taste then?
You'll be hard pressed to find out.
Tea” wysłany:
Steeped in the tears of forum trolls, probably.
How far does Stormwind's Kingdom stretch?” wysłany:
02/14/2017 01:10 PMPosted by Stiorra
02/14/2017 01:01 PMPosted by Ornyx
Generally, the kingdom (under control) would include Elwynn Forest, Redridge Mountains, Duskwood, Westfall, and Stormwind City itself.

The governments of these regions vary, but they are all either directly claimed by Stormwind or a fiefdom/protectorate of Stormwind itself - this is why you may see varying colors being flown.

If you saw the Warcraft movie, you got a glimpse at the scope of Elwynn and a couple other zones. :)


Do a sequel the movie was great.

Also what about Karazhan? Is that it's own thing?
I think Deadwind Pass is generally considered within Stormwind's sphere of influence, there's just not much to influence there. ;P

02/14/2017 01:01 PMPosted by Ornyx
The governments of these regions vary, but they are all either directly claimed by Stormwind or a fiefdom/protectorate of Stormwind itself - this is why you may see varying colors being flown.


But in those areas I dont see the Stormwind colors being flown at all. I guess one could just assume away the reason like, "Stormwind allows them to only fly their own colors but when it comes time for homage, they follow Stormwind." But thats not the traditional fiefdom IRL or most fantasy settings. A vassal is usually required to fly the Lord's colors along with his own.
Varies zone-to-zone, but Sentinel Hill, for example, has Stormwind flags. They may be phased in-game as Sentinel Hill is attacked, but a quick search brought this image up.
Do u get insulted for playin ur spec?” wysłany:
<span class="truncated">...</span>Nope! My argument is that the community has poorly built, ingrained expectations based on perceptions of class balance that should be reformed.

Joining a casual guild is an easy one-off solution, I guess. The bigger solution is us continuing work on class balance while engaging in conversations like these.

Edit: For clarification, it's fine for high expectations to exist for harder content, just as it is for expectations to exist that content should be able to be cleared with any spec/class in tow. I just disagree that the scrutiny placed on folks who aim to be more casual or just going about their day is well-placed.

<span class="truncated">...</span>That's not okay. Sorry that happened. :/


wow. seriously? You are just as disconnected from the player base with your comments as the devs are. Shame on you for those insulting remarks. maybe the problem is some of blizzards staff should go join a casual gaming outfit that has clients that accept such shoddy workmanship.
To address what I think is your point: believe it or not, balance is generally in a good place right now, as I said earlier in this thread. There will always be a class in the bottom when it comes to numbers, but, again, this is a community perception issue more than anything - especially when looking at the vast majority of specs being super close to each other on (to take it into account) log rankings at various percentiles. And just to state it again: there are a couple of outlying specs that vary fight-to-fight that we are watching and looking into.

You didn't really make a good comment here that lends itself to any kind of discussion. If you'd like to contribute to a constructive conversation, please do it.